Join the conversation with Brandon Hicks as he shares the strategy he has been using to find success in real estate. Brandon is the founder of Ridgeline Wealth Group, which focuses on purchasing self-storage facilities that meet specific property and market criteria. The company adds value by renovating the property and introducing automation to improve the customer experience.
Brandon began his real estate investing journey in 2020, making several investments in his first year. He is a limited partner in 203 doors with multifamily and a general partner in a 58k sqft self-storage facility. As a problem solver at heart, Brandon has a bachelor’s degree in mechanical engineering and has worked in the Consumer Electronics industry for over 8 years, specializing in new product development. He brings this passion for solving problems into real estate, focusing on acquiring off-market self-storage facilities. Brandon lives in Massachusetts with his wife, Shelby, and their dog, Harper.
Tune in to this conversation, and let’s get the insights!
During this episode, you will learn about;
*****Thank you so much for listening to the Making Money in Multifamily Real Estate Show! This show covers everything to do with Multifamily Real Estate Investing to help you, the listener, become an expert in your real estate ventures. The host, Dave Morgia, brings on guests who are already experts in their respective fields to discuss what principles and practices they follow that have helped them achieve their success so far.
Please consider leaving a review and sharing it with your friends and family and follow us on Facebook!
*****Thank you so much for listening to the Making Money in Multifamily Real Estate Show! This show covers everything to do with Multifamily Real Estate Investing to help you, the listener, become an expert in your real estate ventures. The host, Dave Morgia, brings on guests who are already experts in their respective fields to discuss what principles and practices they follow that have helped them achieve their success so far.
Join the conversation with Brandon Hicks as he shares the strategy he has been using to find success in real estate. Brandon is the founder of Ridgeline Wealth Group, which focuses on purchasing self-storage facilities that meet specific property and market criteria. The company adds value by renovating the property and introducing automation to improve the customer experience.
Brandon began his real estate investing journey in 2020, making several investments in his first year. He is a limited partner in 203 doors with multifamily and a general partner in a 58k sqft self-storage facility. As a problem solver at heart, Brandon has a bachelor’s degree in mechanical engineering and has worked in the Consumer Electronics industry for over 8 years, specializing in new product development. He brings this passion for solving problems into real estate, focusing on acquiring off-market self-storage facilities. Brandon lives in Massachusetts with his wife, Shelby, and their dog, Harper.
Tune in to this conversation, and let’s get the insights!
During this episode, you will learn about;
*****Thank you so much for listening to the Making Money in Multifamily Real Estate Show! This show covers everything to do with Multifamily Real Estate Investing to help you, the listener, become an expert in your real estate ventures. The host, Dave Morgia, brings on guests who are already experts in their respective fields to discuss what principles and practices they follow that have helped them achieve their success so far.
Please consider leaving a review and sharing it with your friends and family and follow us on Facebook!
*****Thank you so much for listening to the Making Money in Multifamily Real Estate Show! This show covers everything to do with Multifamily Real Estate Investing to help you, the listener, become an expert in your real estate ventures. The host, Dave Morgia, brings on guests who are already experts in their respective fields to discuss what principles and practices they follow that have helped them achieve their success so far.
Welcome to the Making Money in Multifamily Show, where we discuss everything to do with multifamily real estate investing. We believe it's the best way to gain financial freedom and build lasting wealth. This is where you'll find it the best information and practices to help you succeed in your real estate business, whether you're already experienced or just starting out. Here's your host, Dave Morgia.
Dave Morgia:Hello, listener and welcome to the show. I'm your host, Dave Morgia and with me today is Brandon Hicks. Brandon started his journey in commercial real estate at the end of 2020. And after a challenging start to 2020 with his W2, he figured he needed a new path to figure out where he wanted to go in life. What he was actually looking to get outta life. He joined a me mentorship program. Jump started his education and started investing and. All sorts of things, mostly self storage, and Brandon is now a passive investor in 203 multifamily doors and a GP in 58,000 square feet of self storage. Brandon, I think to me, your real kind of skills have, you know, we've talked several times about kind of what you're getting into, but kind of the systems is, is what you really kind have narrowed in on as your superpower. Um, so welcome to the show and yeah, if you just wanna give the listener a little bit more of your background, that'd be appreci.
Brandon Hicks:Yeah, thanks for having me, Dave. So yeah, my background, like you mentioned. So I, um, my, my W2 is a mechanical engineer. I've been, I've been doing that for about nine years now and I kind of just started on that traditional path, go to school, get good grades, get a job and, and just kind of climb the corporate ladder. And so that's what I was doing for, like I said, for, for about nine years. And then I started working, maybe it was like 60 hours a week. My like, it just got really busy. Then COVID happened. And normally we would travel overseas for our manufacturing builds. Um, as a mechanical engineer, I would design the product. Then we'd go to the builds and, um, learn how to put things together, what works, what doesn't work. And then we'd fly back home and, and fix the design. But we couldn't do that with. COVID uh, so we had to figure out how to do that remotely. And that meant working on overseas hours. So we were working, you know, into the nighttime 12:00 AM, one, 1:00 AM. And that just started to take a toll on me. And I really started to burn out. I didn't really understand what burnout was until I went through it and then was like, oh man, this is, this is terrible. And that's what got me to like really start questioning things before then. I hadn't really questioned much. There was like, I kind of felt like. Okay. I'm climbing the corporate ladder, but I'm not really getting ahead eventually with some time I'll get ahead. And there was something that wasn't quite right, but I couldn't kind of, I couldn't really put my finger on it until. Going through the burnout and then saying, all right, I need to do something different. And then, uh, rich dad, poor dad popped up on, on social media. And I decided to read a book as a mechanical engineer. Don't really like a lot people started that book. yeah. You know, as a mechanical engineer, I like, I like numbers and not reading. And for years I never, I hadn't read a book. And then finally I came across that book and said, what's the worst that could happen. And. I read that. I read that book and was just blown away with, uh, the mindset around, uh, assets versus liabilities, financial education. I thought I was financially educated, uh, beforehand and realized, oh, I very not financially educated. And that just sent me down a path of, uh, learning, reading as many books as I, as I could YouTube, uh, podcast, I kind of replaced music with podcasts and. TV with reading just to learn as much as I could. And then I realized I was learning a lot, but not taking action. And then that's what brought me into join the mentorship program that we talked about, uh, so that I could start taking action, cuz my fear was that I wouldn't take action. I, I saw the possibilities and I saw that, uh, what real estate could do for me. Uh, but I, but I knew my analysis paralysis kind. Background or like the way I was, I would continue to think about it and not take that action. So I ended up joining the group and that's where I ended up meeting my coach, which brought me into, uh, the self storage space. And, um, so in, yeah, so that's, uh, how I, how I kind of, how I kind of got here. Um,
Dave Morgia:Yeah. It's um, I talk to people a lot about this. I think we've actually spoken about it, but that period where you're like, kind of just drinking through the fire hose, just learning everything, like all at once in that like three, six month period, whatever it is for you, it's such a fun period. Uh, but there is a point where you just have to start taking action. Like you said, eventually you got like 80% of the learning that you can get on paper and you gotta do the rest of the learning while you're actually out in the field getting the work done. So, um, yes. Yeah. It's different different type of style learning, but you gotta kind of make that switch. So.
Brandon Hicks:Yeah. And it's, it's, um, difficult now because I still, I, I find that so much, like the learning to be so much fun, that, and it's easier than taking action. So I find myself a lot of times, like starting to bias towards learning and not taking action. So I have to remind myself, all right, like, yes, it's great to read for an hour, but like, if, if you only have two hours today to, to, to take action, like you can't chew through all of your action time, uh, with learning time. So finding that balance is, is difficult. Um, cuz it is, um, I find it
Dave Morgia:fun. Yeah. I'm with you, it's like 80, 20 rule. You can get caught up in a bunch of stuff, but if it's not the primary movers for the biz, you gotta gotta check yourself. So exactly. But, uh, yeah, I guess speaking of like 80, 20 skill or 80 20 rule in your skillset, uh, I mentioned big systems guy. We've kind of nerded out about this offline, you know, at a conference before just sitting a table after lunch for like an hour after everybody had left, we were the last one sitting. Um, you, in my opinion, have a really good off market strategy for your self storage stuff. And I would just love to kind of pick at that, you know, maybe we start at the beginning and I know you have a deal, um, that you've kinda learned some lessons through mm-hmm we probably won't hit too much on that, but, um, just wanna kind of see, you know, how that process works and, and maybe I'll, you know, have, um, sure. A couple questions along the way.
Brandon Hicks:Yeah. So, uh, part of once we joined the, um, the, uh, mentorship group, you heard, I started hearing a lot about off market deals and, and how there can be some really, really good deals with really good returns. Um, but it takes a little bit more effort and work, uh, to, to find those and that. For whatever reason, I was kind of drawn to that. And I remember my coach, he had great on market lead flow, but he didn't have, um, off market. And I was, I had been for a while trying to think about how, figure out, how I could add value to him because he was starting to close deals and I wanted to be a part of that. And I was like, well, what if I find off market deals? What if I put the strategy in place? I could find potentially find some deals that meet his criteria, bring them to him and then partner with. Um, and then at the same time, I've now built a list. And if there are deals that don't meet his criteria, maybe I can bring them to another sponsor or even, even myself, once I've gained enough experience with time. And so that's, uh, what kind of got me down that path and. Of course the, the first time I, like when I started building a system and figuring out what I was gonna do, I was putting, I was creating a job for myself. I was like trying to do everything as cheaply as I could save as much money. Uh, my wife was doing one part of the process. I was doing one part of the process. I signed my friend up to do cold calling, but that was like after his job was over. And so we had a process in place, but it, uh, It involved all of us kind of doing it in our spare time. And then I went away for, uh, a conference one weekend and, and like nothing happened because I was so integrated in the process. I was skip tracing. I was cold calling. I was just doing, trying to save as much money as I could. And what I found was I was kind of creating like, Um, I don't, we've received this book, the amateur, um, it's called turning pro. I dunno if you've read that book, but like the amateur versus a pro I realized, like I was kind of treating the system like an amateur, would I, I just didn't have it. Wasn't automated. I built myself a job. And so I said, okay, I've gotta do something different here. And really why I was doing that again. I mentioned. To, to save money. I didn't wanna hire, I didn't wanna pay for a VA. I didn't wanna pay for all the systems, but those are the systems or the, the softwares of the applications that allow you to really gain some momentum and really get to the number of leads that you need to be successful. And so that's when I decided to, um, make a commitment and hire virtual assistant, put the right processes in place and. Where my mind was going with, this was okay. If it's gonna cost us much. And it's, this is for 12 months, it's gonna be this amount of money. And, oh my God, that's so much money. Like, I can't commit to that right now. I'm not, I don't have any deals coming in. What if I don't get a deal? Like my mind went to like scarcity, scarcity, mindset, limiting beliefs, and fortunately through this mentorship program and the different way of like the D the different mindsets that they've, you know, we've been taught. I thought, you know, Um, have some, have some faith, make a commitment, um, and worst case you put the system in place for five months, you've spent a couple thousand dollars and you've learned, uh, what works and doesn't work. And, and at that point in time, if you wanna make a change, you can make a change. You don't, you're not locking yourself in for eternity. And so that was what gave me kind of that. Kicking the butt to, to put that in place. And so basically what I did was I went through every step of the process. How am I gonna find, how am I gonna find leads? Um, how am I gonna get the contact information for those leads? Uh, what CR what CRM am I gonna upload those to? What phone dialer am I gonna use? And I went through, you know, just a couple different CRMs, a couple different dialers. Trying to figure out how I could, um, streamline the process as much as possible. And, and that's what I did. And I basically went through every step recorded, uh, videos, uh, wrote out, uh, like an operating procedure and basically recorded everything I, I did and then hired my virtual assistant. And, uh, the first week we ended. I think meeting an hour a day for the whole week to go through every step of the process. And then, um, after a few weeks she was pretty much self-sufficient and then anytime a question would come up, you know, she'd send me a slack and then I'd say, you know, is this something I can automate? Can I delegate? Can we eliminate it? And, um, having that kind of mindset is what allowed me to kind of clean up all of the questions. To the point now where I might work 15 minutes a week on the system, basically she creates the list. Uh, she does a skip tracing. She gets it out into the, into CRM. She does the cold calling and sets up the appointments for me. So I'm just, uh, speaking truly a business now. yes. Yeah. So I'm just speaking to interested owners at that point. So it really is like 15, 15 minutes or less a week, which has been, um, amazing. So
Dave Morgia:I think first I want to hit this kind of sprint approach. You took it, you mentioned like five months, you know, if it doesn't work, we'll move on or, you know, maybe extended a little bit further. Was there kind of some math behind that five months, you know, it's gonna take X amount of money and, and hopefully it pays, uh, for a deal that, you know, yields. You know, amount of dollars or what was the kind of logic there? You mentioned it a little bit, but I'd like to pick that a little more. Yeah. So,
Brandon Hicks:um, the one thing that I was missing was like the conversion ratio of how many leads I need to talk to before I should close a deal, but I, I had heard some figures and so I kind of worked backwards from that was like, okay, like if I, if I talked with, you know, if I reach out to a thousand leads, Maybe I will close one. Okay. So how long is it gonna take me to get there? I wanted to position myself where I, I gave myself a chance, um, statistically to. Too close on a property, based on some rough numbers I've heard in the industry, you hear a lot of stories of, of people stopping too soon, or they're like three feet from gold and then they stop. And so I wanted to make sure I left myself enough runway to like, if I put the right system in place and I do what I've been taught, um, I would give myself a, a good chance of finding a deal. Um, I didn't want to, to stop to stop too early.
Dave Morgia:As a fellow engineer, we call that margin. Right? So yes, yes. Um, yeah, so I think, um, I think I'd like to kind of start from the beginning. You mentioned 15 minutes a week. Hopefully we can get 15 minutes of the process here and, and we'll call it, uh, you know, 30 minutes a week for you this week. Um, so yeah, let's start at the top. Uh, where are you? These leads. Um, and then we'll kind of go from how we filter down the list.
Brandon Hicks:Yeah, so to find leads, at least for storage. Um, the, the, the nice thing about storage is compared to multifamily is it's more of like a, a customer facing business than it is a tenant business. So, um, Google, uh, so most, most, uh, self storage facilities need a Google presence. And so we're able to find most of our leads just through, through Google. Um, now. I have certain criteria that I wanna hit, that you're not gonna really be able to quickly find through Google. Um, so I kind of conceded on that. I really wanted to filter out and get, and, and confirm that what I was entering into my CRM were all, um, properties that met my criteria or I sponsors criteria, but there really wasn't, I couldn't find a great way to do that. And I didn't want that to get in the way of me continuing to take action. So I conceded on that for now and said, okay, this is maybe something I can improve in the future. Um, the other, uh, Other thing that gave me some confidence to move forward, there was just because the deal. Isn't in my like criteria or like something that exactly I want to do doesn't mean that it's not, um, somebody else's so I could, I could find the deal, say, you know what? The market characteristics look great here. The numbers look great. It doesn't match. It's not exactly what I wanna take down, but maybe I can connect. Um, a buyer with this property, like in like a, kind of a wholesale situation. So I said, you know what? I think this could still work. And, and what I'll do is I'll continue to keep track of this and, and see like, you know, um, am I wasting a lot of time or money on deals that, that, um, really nobody wants. And if that's the case, then I'll revisit that. So
Dave Morgia:in a specific case like that, where you have a deal that doesn't fit you, but looks good. Does that mean you're underwriting that fully and then saying, you know what, it's not hitting my boxes, but maybe it'll. You know that short list of partners. Is that how it goes for you usually?
Brandon Hicks:Yeah. So, uh, when we get an interested seller, I'll talk with 'em, um, over the phone and see, uh, learn a little bit more about the property. See if I can get a T 12 and a rent roll, and then I'll do, I would do a quick underwriting just to make sure it looks good. And then I would make that decision. Um, I actually haven't come across that yet. Um, the system I've had in place has been about five months now, so I haven't come across one that I. Want to take on, which is, which is good. Cuz I had that question before. What if I find a lot of properties that I don't want, um, or don't fit my criteria. Um, so I haven't come across that yet, but that's what I, what I've been doing so far.
Dave Morgia:Okay. So you mentioned, it's kind of, you know, maybe a little bit messier of a, uh, top line funnel than you were looking for, but what is the kind of conversion from say a thousand leads look like to phone calls for you?
Brandon Hicks:Yeah. So I'm getting about 1%, uh, interested owners. Um, so for every, uh, hundred we talk to or hundred yeah, a hundred. We talk to, I'm getting about 1% interest. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. So, and, and, and that interest can be anything from like, Well, there's always a price, you know, like come back to me with a price. Um, and you know, we'll talk sometimes sellers aren't as interested to give out their financials and they'll say, well, you know, there's always a price. If you wanna gimme 5 million bucks, like, of course I would sell it to you. So like I'm, I'm counting that as interest. Um, and, and. They might, that might be a lower level of interest. Um, but it's, it kind of ranges from that to, yeah. Actually I'm listing my property in two weeks. Like if, you know, gimme a call and we can, we can talk numbers. Um, so it kind of ranges, but yeah, I'm seeing about 1%.
Dave Morgia:Okay. So yeah, I would, I would definitely agree, like, Having a conversation back is definitely a, at least a warm lead. Right. Um, what does that process look like? I know you mentioned the VA at least kind of starts the initial screening and kicks you the, uh, the first call. What does the follow up after that initial call look like? How frequently, how long are you kind of staying on the hook with these guys and girls to make sure you can actually close something
Brandon Hicks:long term? Yeah. So what we end up doing within the CRM is we'll convert the lead into a deal. And then it's like tracked within the deal funnel. So then we've, you know, we've got thousands of leads in the leads bucket, but then, um, we move them over into the deal funnel so that it's, it's a much smaller bucket of, um, um, Sellers or potential yeah. Or owners to, to, to talk to. And it, it really does. It does, uh, vary like some, some sellers aren't nearly as motivated. And so you send call 'em and, um, they don't answer or they do. And, um, maybe I get their son, I've had this a few times, like, oh, that's my dad's property. So it does take a little bit of time and what I, what I don't have in place yet, but I know I wanna put it in place as a more structured follow up process. How long are we like. Um, following up, like, is it every week or if they're seeming to lack interest, do we then kind of move them into a, a. Uh, slower cadence or like maybe it's a month later. Maybe it's two months later. Like, I don't wanna be an annoying and, um, AEST so I don't have that, uh, fully, uh, flushed out yet, but it's on my list of like system improvements to make.
Dave Morgia:Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, like I, I mentioned the one guy was like a warmly there's. There's certainly different types of leads. Some guy might be, you know, pretty much ready and you can tell, and it's maybe just one or two more interactions or whatever. So just curious to see how you, you handled that
Brandon Hicks:differently. Yeah. That's something I, I definitely need to work on. Um, and I think as I'm sure there'll be some trends, like there'll probably like people will probably start to kind of respond in like similar ways. Like. You know, like someone, if they do this, then do that. Like I've already started within my system. Like, okay, if they say they want an email, then come over here and send an email and if they want this. So as we continue, um, I'm continuing to do kind of like if then statements, the playbooks are getting
Dave Morgia:flushed out a little bit. Yes.
Brandon Hicks:So, um, so yeah, I had the, like the, the first part done really well, and now we're starting to get, as we get more interest, then we can start to, uh, build that out system systemize that a little bit better.
Dave Morgia:And then what about the lead side of that process? I mean, I would assume a lot of them are, are kind of like bad information on the list scraping or, or whatever. Um, but something where you're not at least getting that first response back, what is that a similar case where it's just a, it's probably gotta be more automated of a process where it's just cut and dry kind of repetition. Uh, but is there anything kind of, uh, there that you're, you're looking at.
Brandon Hicks:Yeah. So what I'm keeping track of, I'm trying to keep metrics for every step of the process. So I can see if something starts to trend in a, in a bad direction. So for instance, we're getting, um, let's say a hundred deals outta Google, and then we are sending them to skip trace and we'll get back about. 90. So about 10% won't be found like information won't be found. And so I'm keeping track of that to see maybe the per that maybe the, um, I'm actually working with someone on fiber for skip tracing, you know, if they change up their systems or what softwares they use to find. I, and they don't, they might not tell me that. And so I can keep an eye, an eye on like, does it drop to 80% in one week? Like what happened there? Because we still pay for that. Um, As opposed to, I think some skip tracing sovereigns, you actually only pay for what they return, the person that I'm working with. You just pay for the amount that you've funneled in at the top. And then it does, if they only got 50, I would still pay for the hundred, which is I'm saying that is maybe something I should, maybe something I should negotiate. Um, uh, but we're Al I guess that's like an example of just always improving. Um, so I'm keeping track of that and then. Once we get back the list of skip trace, we then enter that into the CRM and start cold calling. And that's kind of the first thing we do to confirm whether the information, what number works well and, um, how successful we were. So then they'll go into a bucket of, was the owner confirmed. So that means that my virtual system either got on the phone with, um, this seller. And they said, yes, this is my property. Whether they're interested or not, we'll at least tag that in the CRM as that, this is this owner's been confirmed, and this is the number we should use. Um, owner not confirmed would be. We couldn't get ahold of, we couldn't get ahold of them through phone or, um, by mail. I haven't started mail yet, but that's, we'll eventually introduce that as well. Um, or confirmed, not the owner. So like this was just bad information. Um, so I've got. I've got that. Uh, you can go into the CRM, you can filter for owner confirmed, not confirmed or confirmed, not the owner. And then you can set a time period. So you can see like, what was it for this week? And I've just got that in Excel. So I can see the trend over time. Like does not does owner, um, not confirmed or let me maybe make sure I get this right. There's a lot of knots and, and, uh, So if they're confirmed, not the owner, what I don't wanna see is that that goes up over time. I wanna see that that's staying pretty low and flat. And for the first few months here, it has been only a, a handful of week, which is good. And then I can see how does the owner confirm change over time? Um, and then the not confirmed, maybe getting a little confusing, but the ones that are not confirmed, there's probably some in there. Our as bad information. And then there's probably some in there that is, um, good, but we just weren't able to get ahold of them. So I need a process, which I don't have yet for following up and, um, turning those to either being confirmed, confirmed one way or another. Um, we're building out our list now. And then at some point, once we get through all the states and the cities that we're interested in, we're gonna revisit and start trying to clean up all that data.
Dave Morgia:And I think, um, I. There's gotta be some level I would think of like, you're, you're an inch or a foot from gold on that, that, you know, 20%, 10% of the list, because if they're harder to find, like by default, they probably have been contacted less by other people also looking to do real estate with them. So, um, exactly. You know, it's, it's a balance of committing too much time to it, but I'm certain, there's probably, you know, some room to grow there and make it a little more efficient and probably you get a lot of results on that last
Brandon Hicks:little. Yeah, that's something that I need to think more about because, um, you could, we can kind of filter through a lot really quickly. Yeah. Um, but then the ones that are tougher are, there's probably more gold there, but it's also a lot more time. And what is the right balance? Um, I haven't figured that out yet. Um, but that's, again, that's another part of the system that I just need to, we need to start working on. We've basically been in the like, Really quick filtering phase, like in interest and not interested. Okay. Once we, once we get back or once we've gone through the full list, let's go back and revisit the ones that we couldn't confirm. And then how do we wanna disposition those? Is, is it worth reaching out to them again? Or should we send them through another skip trace? Um, so that's something that I've still gotta work on. Yeah. I
Dave Morgia:mean, like you mentioned, you're still. Not fully fleshed out in every market you're looking to target. So there's still, you know, at the high level, uh, more leads coming in, so you can always kinda loop back around and iterate even further. So I think, think you're probably doing it pretty pretty correct. Um, yeah. And I guess like getting into the VA side of things you mentioned, you know, kind of like the week of training and. Uh, I would just like to kind of cover what the extent of the task that the VA does for you. Uh, I know you said only 15 minutes a week, that's obviously, you know exactly what you want. And I know we talked offline before where you were almost kind of worried at one point, like, is, is she doing okay? And she said, yeah, anytime, uh, she had a question, there was a video for her. So could we just kind of go over that a little bit more and how, how you set that up so that it's really, uh, kind of working on and not working in the.
Brandon Hicks:Yeah. So before I hired, uh, my virtual assistant, I went through every step of the process. So I had already figured out what I wanted my process to be. I had already kind of like, um, written it out, like bullet form as high level. Um, but I needed a way to communicate to my VA, uh, every like how to do that. And I was like, okay, I could do. In a written form and like a, like an SOP type of document that you'd see in like the corporate world or, um, I could do that with video screen, like screenshot. I was like, you know what? That is probably the, the best thing is I can record myself, speak through, speak it out loud, but also record my screen. And so that's what I ended up doing. There's a few softwares. Um, I ended up. Nat, which you can record video webcam and your screen at the same time. And I just went through every step of the process. Like here's how I want. Here's how I wanna find leads. So go to this Excel sheet, here are the cities that I'm interested in, then go to Google type this in. Take this information. Um, the name of the facility, the address of the facility enter it, like every fine detail. Um, so by forcing myself to go through the step and just record, I'd create like a three to five minute video. And then I would put, I'd put that on my, uh, Google drive and then, um, basically create a step 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I think I've got 15 to 20 videos up there and label them accordingly. And then the first week that my VA started, we went through all of those videos. And then you have any questions? No, not right now. Like, and, and just work through that so that. That was the thing that helped me. I think the most be able to like step away very quickly was, um, if she had a question she had a video she could go to and not, um, just reach out otherwise, if she didn't have that, she'd have to reach out to me directly and then I'd have to step away and then go type it. And it's easier to show than it is to type. So that really helped.
Dave Morgia:And I think the important kind of differentiator there is to reduce it down to the micro task. Like when you can do it to like the three to five minute clip, like you said, like you're specifically going in to do like this task right now. This is exactly how you do this five minutes of work. Instead of like, here's like a broad scope of like everything I do in a week and one video, and then it's like you scrolling through things, you know, it's like, if you forget how to do something, Go right to that link. It's right there. That's, that's very handy.
Brandon Hicks:Right. And, and I know people learn differently. So I also wrote out like that operating procedure with step one and, and put it in words as well. And then within there, I would link to the video or link to like websites. Like these are some websites that we're gonna use frequently. Here's the link. The other thing I did was set goals, um, and targets. So I kind of roughed out what I thought a week, a week of work should look like, like there's gonna be a balance of finding leads and getting them out for skip tracing. Um, and then, then there's a waiting period, but we don't wanna be waiting for them to come back. So then we could be cold calling. So. I set targets like, okay, I wanna enter a hundred leads a week. Let's say, and I think you could make about three to 400 phone calls a week. So I would break those into hours and say, okay, like what if we found, spent all Monday finding leads and then that goes out to the, the, um, to fire for skip tracing and then on Tuesday, cuz we're not gonna have that back yet. Let's cold call all day. And then on Wednesday, the leads will come back. Now we can enter those into the CRM and then we can spend the rest of the. Cold calling. So it wasn't like a, you have to follow this process. Exactly. But I wanted to give an idea of like what I was thinking, and then she could start to learn what, um, works best for her, cuz I'm not now she's more of the expert in this than I am. Um, so I don't wanna dictate every little thing to her and have her follow this rigid. Process specifically, which is in it now in like, maybe it's not inefficient, but she's just doing that. Cuz that's what I said. So I kind of wanted to give guidelines so that we could start in the right direction. And then it was like, Hey, you have the freedom to start. You don't have to do this on Monday. If it doesn't make sense, like I'm sure Fri there's gonna be some carryover for Friday. And if it doesn't make sense to, to spend all day finding leads, you don't have to do that. But here are some targets. And I remember in the beginning, its like the first or second week, you know, she was like, I haven't hit a hundred leads this week. Like I'm so sorry. And I was like, okay, you know, like it's no big deal. And I realized it's not a pass or fail. Yeah. We need, I realized what I needed to do was almost like say, okay, week one is like, say 25% of target and then week two and then ramp it up to now where, I mean she like blows those numbers out of the water and um, It's been great. I'm like, I think she's made like five or 6,000 phone calls this year. I'm like, oh my God, I haven't done that in my lifetime. Uh, so it's, it's great. Yeah.
Dave Morgia:That's really great. Yeah. I think like you mentioned like the framework for the test and not like the rigidness of the test, uh, just like an ex as an example, I have like certain parts of the podcasting process that, that we do. It's it's like, okay. Like the, the video is uploading or the audio is uploading, but it takes like 20 minutes. I suggest you go do like these types of tests while you're waiting, but you can, you know, fill a time with like, whatever you want. Mm-hmm like, that's how I, I had framed it too. It was like, I, I do it this way, but like maybe you find a better way. I don't know. Yeah. So I think there flexibility is very important.
Brandon Hicks:Exactly.
Dave Morgia:Yeah. And then I guess, you know, getting into the. Longer game of things, ultimately, this, the yields, uh, you having phone calls with these owners, what are the personal challenges? Uh, you've come across in this process? I know we mentioned kinda like the iteration of like the follow up process, but, but what have you kinda learned personally from these interactions that I'm sure you, you know, you hadn't had these types of phone calls before the owners, so, so what'd you kinda learn.
Brandon Hicks:Yeah, so that's tough for me. I don't like being on the phone. Um, I, one of the biggest reasons I wanted to hire a virtual assistant was cuz I didn't wanna do the cold calling. Sure. Um, I've done it a few times. I haven't done it as much as someone might suggest I do it so that I could learn it. Um, and that's, that's interesting cuz I have been trying to put myself in uncomfortable situations, um, for like within fit, like exercise and a number of other things as well. Um, just so I can kind of grow that muscle cuz that's something that. Like in the past, I would, like I mentioned the analysis paralysis. It'd be like, oh, I'm uncomfortable with this. Let me just think about it a little bit more. So I'm trying, I'm, I'm trying really hard to get past that. Um, I still have that when I talk to an owner, I don't know if it's like imposter syndrome or something, but it's like, I have to remind myself. Okay. You do have, um, a number of deals under your belt. At this point, you UN you've been educating. In this space for two years now, you, you know, the lingo, you know what to talk? You can, you are educated here. Like you should be con you, you should be confident here. So I have, I do have to remind myself that and almost have like a little bit of a pep talk with myself because I, I still. Don't like calling owners and, um, there's no way around that. Like basically that's the last step in the process. Um, and that's my responsibility. Um, I can't hire that out. So, um, I it's, it's been a work in progress, so being honest. Yeah, I still don't. I still don't love doing it. I need to reframe it. Um, I have to, you know, probably reframe it as like, you know, this is another opportunity to get another deal, which gets you to your, you know, financial freedom, like. That's my, why is time and financial freedom? So, um, that's what I have to, I'm constantly having to remind myself, like, why are you doing this? Like, it's just a phone call. It's not that bad. And then I get off the phone. I'm like, oh, that wasn't that bad. You know, like you make it out to be this thing. like,
Dave Morgia:um, it's blown up in your head way more than it is actually. So. Yeah. Yeah.
Brandon Hicks:So, I mean, sometimes you do get like, you know, uh, someone that's rude actually to like kind of lighten the mood there. Um, I, we actually have a tag in the CRM that says, like tag someone as being rude. So like nice. My virtual assistant, like cuz there was one time where she was like, wow, it was really rude. And I was like, That would crush me. Um, like if, if someone was super rude to me on the phone for no re like, it's not a big deal. Um, but so we actually have a tag that like, like when we call that person back, we're like, we know what to expect. That's amazing, actually. Yeah. That's great. This person was rude. Um, kind of lighten the, lighten, the mood there a little bit, I think. Um, but yeah, every time I get off the phone, I'm like, oh yeah, that wasn't so bad. Like they were, they were nice. Um, they like, you know, I don't know what I was worried about. You know, like even the, even the one deal, the one deal that we, you mentioned, um, this, the seller had told my VA that, um, he doesn't want a salesy call. He doesn't wanna talk to someone on the phone. Like he only wants to deal with email. And then I emailed him and immediately he was like, yeah, you wanna come visit the property? And I was like, wow. Then I talked to him in person, and now we like, we we've been in contact quite a bit now and we get along great. And I'm like, Oh like it, like, it wasn't that bad. Like it, it, I thought it was gonna be worse and it wasn't that bad and it seems to always be the case.
Dave Morgia:Yeah. I think, um, yeah, you talk about like figuring out what tasks you should be doing versus the ones that maybe you're just like scared to do. Mm-hmm I think like once you get. Over like the uncomfortableness of it. If you still don't like it, maybe it's time to move on. Like maybe, you know, in a year you find your calling owners and you're totally used to it, but maybe you still don't like doing it. Like maybe then it's time to like, figure out like a different process. Right? Yeah. But like, while you're still like, kind of figuring that navigation out, um, yeah, it sounds like it's probably still time for you to do it yourself. Uh, and, and it's gonna yield better results in learning. I think that way.
Brandon Hicks:And I think, yeah, I, I, I struggled with this in the beginning when I had the more manual process, which was like, I knew it was good for me to kind of get that thicker skin, get like, do the cold calling and call a number of people. But with my, with having a full time job, it just. Um, it was not easy for me to, you have to do that during business, like business hours. Like you have to call people when they're willing to be like, answer the phone. And so it was really difficult for me to gain any kind of momentum. And so, although I did have that in the back of my mind, like, am I just. Am I making an excuse here to, to try to not make the phone calls or is it really just not a, uh, sustainable thing. And I arrived at, it's just not sustainable for the number of people that I wanna be calling the week. Um, I just don't have the time to like take, uh, make 200 phone calls while like during business hours while I have a full-time job. So it made sense to offload that. And then now that's
Dave Morgia:a great question. Like, is it a limiting. For yourself or is it like an actual business, like limiting, you know, process. Right. So that, that's a great distinction, right? Yeah. Um, we are, we are getting kind of flirting with, uh, my five key questions kind of, you know, process and your kind of mental fortitude. So I like to hit those. Uh, we, we, you know, you got a plethora of systems. I think we could probably talk for another hour, but yep. I know we're both running outta time here today. So, uh, first one here, if you could only pick one trait that explains your success brain and what is that trait? And.
Brandon Hicks:Yeah, I, I think it would be a willingness to learn. Uh, I mentioned previous a couple years ago, I, I had this like, oh, I'm smart. I can figure this out. Wasn't really looking for coaches or anything like that. And I've kind of 180 that ever since reading rich dad, port out, I, that was like a dose of reality. Like, you really don't know what you really don't know that much. And so I think it's really important to be willing to learn, um, because in that stage of my life, I really wasn. Growing. Whereas now I feel like I'm just, I'm really growing. I've got a, a coach for running. I've got a, you know, a real estate coach. I've got a per a high performance coach. Um, and, um, being, being willing to, to learn and being coachable, I think is really important because if they suggest something that probably will take you to that next level, you say, ah, I don't need to do that. Like, I think I know better then you probably won't make the, the, the strides that you're hoping to. So that was. I think that's the number one thing for me is that willingness to learn being humble and, and not, not being too confident. Um, overly confident, like, yeah, I don't need this. Like, um, I think that's, I had that realization, at least with my running coach. Um, I had run a few half marathons, uh, in past years, but I didn't have a coach and I didn't. Didn't have the right nutrition, the right stretching, the right, um, uh, equipment or anything. And I got injured four weeks in and I still ran. I still ran it, but like I still ran, but I had to stop training. And then I decided I wanted to do a marathon, which is like twice the amount of training. I was like, geez, how could, if I couldn't even get through half of the half marathon training, how am I gonna get through the full? And someone suggested get a, join a group and, and get a coach. And I've done two rounds of that so far, which. 16 weeks and got through that very successfully. I've learned a ton and now I realize, oh, like it does make a huge difference is being willing to learn being coachable and, and, and seeking coaches for what is important for you in your goals.
Dave Morgia:Yeah. I think like, especially when you take that action to actually hire a coach, that level of just surrendering yourself to an extent, if you will, that's like, that's the whole point. It's like, okay, like I'm, I'm yielding, uh, myself to you and your expertise, like show me the way, like you have to just be humble and let them, you know, kind of teach you things, obviously make sure you're picking the right coach that goes out saying, but like once you make that decision, like, okay, you signed up for it. Let's like commit and actually make sure you're learning. So, yeah, that's amazing. And then Brandon, what is the most uncharacteristic thing you have done in your business and why did you do it
Brandon Hicks:going? Just, I, I would say going back to that system, um, Uncharacteristic for me at the time was making that commitment. Um, I, like I said, I went through the, okay, it's gonna cost me this much times, however many months. Oh my God. Like, I don't have any income coming in from this. How can I, how can I, um, make this leap? And, but really you gotta flip that way of thinking, which is like to get the deal, uh, which could make you tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. You need to put this system in place that. Under a thousand bucks a month. And it's like, so that it was like kind of that frame shift for me, or like, thinking about it a little bit differently was like one deal could make you potentially six figures and that would pay for like 10 years of this system. So, um, it was uncharacteristic for me. Because of the over, like the overanalyzing, our analysis paralysis. Like I would've thought about that a lot before and maybe not taken action, like thought about it too much, then got busy with something else and kind of forget about it. Whereas this time it was like, you know, put this in place, have some faith. You'll it. At the very least you'll pay a little bit to learn something.
Dave Morgia:Yeah. And I think it's just that scarcity mindset, right. It's like in the end of the day, like you knew it was a relative fixed cost. Like you could have cut it off at, you know, five, six months, like you mentioned, and okay. You're out five, six grand. Like that's a lot of money, but also like if you can afford it to like take the, the quote unquote gamble, like it's probably not that big of a gamble when you think about it. So. Yeah, exactly. And then Brandon, can you name a time where you felt like you were not going to end up successful and how did you overcome that?
Brandon Hicks:Yeah. So this first off market property that I got from my system, um, this was the first deal where I was the primary, like partner in the deal. Most of my deals previously, you know, I was a small percentage. Um, I was really in a, like really learning. Um, but there was someone else really driving the deal. Whereas this one was, you know, my money in the earnest money, uh, me finding, uh, the inspector, uh, the attorney, the surveyor finding all these things. And it's interesting cuz. I thought I, I found myself being really uncomfortable a lot, like, um, like multiple days throughout the week, like, oh, I'm very, I feel really uncomfortable. Am I doing the right thing? And it. I hadn't felt that in a while, because I probably hadn't pushed myself enough. And now I'm finding, I, I was finding like that happening quite frequently. And I was like, what is going on? I was like, no, this is, I had to, again, I had to step back and say, no, this is a good thing. Like to get where you want to be, where you're not today, you're gonna have to get uncomfortable. And these things that you're getting uncomfortable with, maybe it's the bill for the attorney, or maybe it's like, um, you know, you, you reanalyze the deal and the NOI is not quite where you thought it was gonna be. Um, I would have to just take a step back and say like, you're uncomfortable because you're doing something you've never done before. And to get where you wanna be, you have to do this. And the things that you're uncomfortable with is like, The cost for this one, like for your attorney, which you need to close deals and, or like to the cost for an inspection, which you need, which also de-risks the property. You're like doing all these things so that when you take this deal over, there are no surprises. And by doing that, it is, uh, much lower risk. Not no risk, but much lower risk. So these are all things that are necessary and you have to do, and yeah, that might, that bill might be 4,000 bucks, but if this deal's gonna make you 50,000 bucks or a hundred thousand bucks or whatever it is, it's like a drop in the bucket. So. That was where I started realizing like, uh, my mindset has changed quite a bit. Although I was getting uncomfortable, I could snap myself out of that. Like spiral of like, worry of like, oh my God it's cost us much. Oh my God. What if, like, what if this goes wrong? What if that goes wrong? What if like, you know, like there's something I didn't find. It's like, no, you're doing all the right things. You're just uncomfortable, cuz you've never done it before.
Dave Morgia:Yeah. I remember we were closing our first one. I was like, I wasn't losing like an entire night's sleep, but it's just like, man, like stuff just keeps you up at night when you're like getting uncomfortable and it's, you know, yes. It's not ideal to lose sleep, but it's, it's good in a weird way. So I'm sure you had similar experiences. Absolutely. Yeah. And then basically flipping that one. Brandon, can you name a time where something in your business went perfectly and what did you do to make that a reality?
Brandon Hicks:Yeah. Um, I, again like this just goes back to like the system. I, I wouldn't say my system is perfect by any stretch imagination, but it has gone, I would say it's exceeded my expectations. Um, it's I never expected that I would have, I never thought I would have like, uh, a virtual assistant working for me. And then every time I go back into, um, the CRM and I see, you know, we're over a couple thousand leads and all the, the work that's happening just reminds me that I, I. Happy I made that leap and that I made the right decision. And, um, it kind of like, what, what did I do to get there? Well, a lot of what we've talked about already was, was kind of putting that like system hat on and thinking, um, like what are the steps of the process? What questions could come up? Um, And I wasn't perfect from the beginning. Like I, there was things I missed, but then having the, the thought to like, when a question would come in, can I systemize or how can I automate it, delegate it, eliminate it. Like, do we really need to do this? Um, having that kind of, um, mentality for the while the system was being built, I think is what allowed me to have, um, such success in that. Um, In that system.
Dave Morgia:And when you kind of evaluate what you're given to a VA, you know, you're paying for their time, you kinda look at those task a little bit further, like, is this even necessary for the business or can we improve it so that we're not wasting time on kind of repeat stuff? So, so yeah, little bit of iterative process there too, which is really good. And then last one here. Brandon, what have you been focusing on lately to improve yourself or your
Brandon Hicks:business? Yeah, it's been, um, putting myself in uncomfortable situations. Um, I mentioned the marathon. I, I ran the Boston marathon a month ago. I actually ran another one yesterday. Uh, so I've been, uh, putting myself out there physically, like, you know, I, I hadn't run that distance before. Um, and it's don't know if you can do it. I mean, like you see people doing it, but you have this question of like, can I do that? And, um, even for the Boston marathon, I had done that. A charity. So I raised, um, thousands of dollars, which I had never done before either. And I remember thinking, should I sign up for this? Because although it's a great charity and I'd love to raise the money. Can I do this, I had that limiting belief and, you know, I just said, I'm gonna sign up and I will figure it out later. And sure enough, I'm at the minimum exceeded a little bit. I learned a lot about myself. Um, so even, um, I also have now been doing like. Cold showers just, uh, to do something. And that's from your
Dave Morgia:mentor. I know for a fact yes. Uh,
Brandon Hicks:just, just to do, uh, something every day that I am uncomfortable with it doesn't get any easier every day. I'm like, shoot, I gotta do that. And then I do that and I'm like, oh, wasn't that bad? But like, It's a little thing that I think it feels like a little thing, but at the same time, I feel like having done that for so many months now I am getting more used to putting myself in uncomfortable situations and not procrastinating and overthinking it. So all of those little things I think are adding up to really like, give me. Mindset to like, have the confidence, um, to, you know, to move forward without, um, too much procrastination or overthinking.
Dave Morgia:Yeah. And you mentioned like the habits adding up, if you haven't read atomic habits to listener or you and you, Brandon, that it talks about like habit stacking and like layering, like a good habit with another good habit that like you're doing back to back or whatever. It actually compounds like anything else? Like it's just interest, like everything else, like you add one can have it. You're more likely to do a second one and it keeps going. So, so yeah, the more you add 'em the more you'll add them, if that makes sense.
Brandon Hicks:yeah. I, I did read that. I think another important part of that book was making things easy, which I like no
Dave Morgia:brainer, no thinking. No, no barrier
Brandon Hicks:to entry. Yep. Yeah. Like if you wanna read at night, put the book on your pillow, so you literally can't lay down without thinking about it. Um, so I I've done that a little bit. I'd like to be a little bit better, but, um, that that's been a huge help.
Dave Morgia:Yeah. And that's like the habit extent to that. It's like when you wake up, make the bed and put the, the, um, book on your pillow, that's like what it is. Right. So exactly. It's
Brandon Hicks:very funny. Exactly.
Dave Morgia:Um, yeah, I really appreciate the time, man. This is, uh, you know, probably. Slightly longer episode. Cause I think we really jive and, uh, get into the details, which I always love and appreciate. Um, but before we do sign off, you just wanna let the listener know how they can reach you today.
Brandon Hicks:Yeah. So, um, I'm on Instagram. Uh, I believe it's a real, a real VHX. Um, and I think that's probably the best way to reach out to me if you wanted to reach me,
Dave Morgia:Brandon, appreciate it. Glad we can really dig into details today and uh, yeah, take care.
Brandon Hicks:Thanks for having me, Dave. Thank you for listening to the show. I don't take your time and attention for granted and appreciate that you would spend it with me. If you enjoyed this show or any of my previous shows, it would be a huge help if you would rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcasting service, or even just share the episode with a friend. And if you'd like help from me or would like to talk about real estate investing further, feel free to visit the show notes for more information, or you can visit davidtravis.com.